Saturday, March 22, 2014

Neato Robotics - Oh don't give me none more of that Old Janx Spirit...

If you are like me you love gadgets. You may even be reading this on a small gadget just because you can.  It won't be easier than reading it on a proper computer or even a laptop but you do it to justify your little gadget to the world, and yourself. Fine. But be warned; I use small words and large pictures.

I love my gadgets too. I love my robotic vacuum. It's got lasers!  What's not to love...
Maneuvering perfectly around my home with a proper plan to clean the place.  That's more than I ever had.

But today it sits there sulking!  "My left wheel is stuck..."
Running to the aid of my robotic pet I find it is pulling a fast one on me.  It is sitting there and lying to my face. Claiming disability will get it nowhere unless it can prove it with a note from the doctor I say.
There was nothing jamming the wheel, and the gearbox seemed fine.  But turning it carefully by hand lead me to think it was running tougher than the other wheel. The doctor decided to operate.

Quick work of the case showed the culprit to be the motor. That is the drivemotor with the tiny hall-sensor on it that Neato robots use to scuttle around your home in a very precise manner. Somehow it seemed the motor had burned out or was just drawing too much power. Measuring it while carefully turning told me it was definately shorted somehow...


Luckily I had the right tools for the job so I quickly disassembled the motor. What caught my eye was all the dust in the can.  It seemed to be from the brushes.


Closer view of the can and brushes revealed the brushes to not even be fully worn in yet.  Way too soon for a motor to fail.


Looking closer at the commutator made the whole thing sadly obvious. The brush-dust had settled in the grooves between the commutator-plates leading to half-or full short between stages in commutation. This half-shorting lead to the stalling and overcurrent causing the Neato to reject the motor.


A quick pick with a scraper between the plates made light work of the collected dust and I reassembled the motor.

To my great relief it runs fine now and current seems to be back to the low levels of a good motor.
Looking over what I did and narrowing down what I had to do to get this motor running again I would say dislodging the dust in the grooves must be done somehow.  Since they are not accessible from the outside and the hall-sensor board blocks the access you need to the release-grooves for the brushes I'd say you need to at least remove the hall-sensor magnet-disc and sensor-board. This will give you access to the two curved slots on the back of the motor to lift up the brushes from the commutator. This is important to avoid bending or otherwise damaging them when you pull the back cap off the motor.
Before this can be done, you will need to pry open the bent tabs that lock the back onto the motor.

It is not necessary to remove the pinion.
Happy repairs!

14 comments:

  1. Hi - I have same problem you had and really want to fix the motor myself (instead of shipping it back to Neato and hoping for the best). However, I don't quite understand how you managed to disassemble the motor and what tools you used to do so (for example, did you have to use a soldering iron at all?). If you can provide a rough step by step guide on how to get things safely disassembled from image 1 to image 4, that would really, really help me out. I just want my Neato to work again! Thanks!

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    1. Hi! Sorry to hear about your Neato.
      This is exactly why I wanted to put this info out there so people can find it and realize this is really just a poor/overdesign-issue.

      The reason why I do not post too detailed info on how to fix this is I do not want people without enough experience to attempt this repair.
      It does involve using soldering irons, pliers and careful tinkering to disassemble the motor without damaging it, its brushes or the sensor-board.

      The magnet-disc and sensor-board was removed to gain access to the crimps in the motor casing. These crimps are quite hard to "open" and finally the brushes need to be lifted before the back cover is removed to avoid bending the brush arms. You do not however need to remove the pinion nor pull the rotor out of the can. I did a full dis-assembly to show everyone all the parts and I have the tools to do so safely. I recommend people not remove the pinion for this repair.

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    2. Thanks for your quick response. Yes, it does sound like a lot of things could go wrong, and I certainly don't want to make matters worse than it already is!

      I suppose a 'safer' option might be to buy a replacement motor online... in which case would I be correct in saying that I would 'only' have to remove the sensor board from the old motor, and then put it on the new motor? If this is a safer option for the less technically inclined, then would you happen to know what type of motor Neato is using so I can do a search for it? Thanks again for all your help and good job with your Neato fix - I wish I had the ability to do fix things like you can!

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  2. Oh okay, I'm an idiot - you can just buy the whole set up at Robotshop - http://www.robotshop.com/en/neato-brush-motor-assembly.html

    69 bucks is a bit pricey but at least the sensor board comes with it, so all I have to do is just pop in the new one in. May be I'll just tinker with the damaged one afterwards and if I can fix it, it'll end up being my spare motor.

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  3. Better prices on ebay...

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  4. Thanks for posting the teardown summary for us.

    Does anyone have the specifications on this motor? I spent a few days investigating mine after the "wheel stuck" message. As we can see in the photo above there is no model number. Other Neato motors labelled Chengfang Motor with a long part number still did not lead me to specifications. It looks like a generic make based on the Mabuchi RS-385PH or RS-365PH package, with 2.0mm dual shaft. They build these motors in a wide range of specs. My good motors draw 0.1 Amp at 10 Volts, but I don't know about RPM or torque yet. Torque and stall specs will be important for selecting a replacement. The biggest problem is that this dual-shaft configuration isn't as common as single. Many sites only stock motors with a driveshaft on one side. This should be about a $3 motor, but Neato spares generally cost $20+shipping.

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    1. The motor Neato use is actually very good. Everything about it shows it was selected for very long life in mind. However, since it is not properly run in, and is run on too low power it does not self-clean brush-dust as it wears in. Result is failure. Very sad.
      Taking the motor out of the Neato and simply trying to knock the dust out might work. Also, if one is not squemish one could try rotating it manually under purified water. Even try running it in with water if one can turn it by hand a few times and get it to run at all.

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  5. I'm still hoping to find the motor specs so I can get replacements years from now and maintain my 3 Neatos for the long haul.

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    1. By saying "generic" I didn't mean low quality, but just that it is built to standard dimensions like a Mabuchi and doesn't have a brand name on it. :)

      I need to get a tachometer and build one of those torque measurement setups I've seen on the slot car forums.

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  6. Is it normal for the brushes to be pre-shaped concave in the direction orthogonal to the axis of the motor, as is visible in your photo? (mine was the same) When we break in motors we're trying to wear in the brushes so they're flush with the surface of the commutator, and the shape pre-molded into these brushes is 90 degrees off from that. I've never opened one up before, so the way they're cupped isn't what I was expecting.

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    Replies
    1. I think this is up to the manufacturer. There appears to be variations.
      Some are flat, others pre-shaped. It may be erronous assembly for all I know but I have seen motors with counter-shapes before and it seems to make the motor break in faster.

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  7. I just ran a successful Spot Clean cycle after following your instructions - THANKS! After cleaning the motor current went down from 1 Amp to less than 0.1 Amp at 10 Volts.

    I was not able to crimp the back of the motor securely like it was originally crimped, because there is almost no overlap to fold over at the back end and I was also afraid to bend the case trying to apply too much force to it. I did what I could, but it might cause a problem if the parts shift or wobble over time.

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  8. (romiadam) Anyone knows, what is the maximum Vss for hall switch? I find out that Red wire is Vss, Brown wire is GND and Yellow wire is OUT.

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